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Star 06.12.2017, 21:54   #28
jtodorov
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Otkrio sam gde je problem. Naime, ja sam spajao klavijaturu sa kablove koje su banana-kanon, tako sto banana ide na izlaze u klavijaturu, a kanone idu u miksetu, i povratni signal iz vokalista sam dobijao istim kablom tako sto u klavijaturu je isao kanon, a u mikser banana na AUX OUT1. Kablovi su bili balansirani.
Uradio sam nebalansirane kablove kanon-banana i opet imam sum i neko hrcenje u pozadini ali se slabije cuje nego kad su bili balansirani kablovi. Nesto jace se cuje kad pojacam GAIN na kanale 15 i 16 (gde ide terca iz SUB1 i SUB2).
Uopste se ne javlja sum (ustvari javlja se ali "normalni" sum jedino kad spojim klavijaturu sa banana-banana kablove koje su nebalansirane, tako sto cetiri kablove spajam u cetiri AUX IN ulaze na mikser. To znaci da liniske izlaze na klavijaturi su uradjeni za spajanje samo sa liniske banana ulaze na mikser, a ne za spajanje u kanale sa kanone.
Dodato:
Evo sta je meni porucio jedan ekspert iz Behringera:

The noise floor sounds about right to me. What I do notice is that there is some latency issues with the bussing structure you went with. As I understand it you have done this:

1. Connected mic into a channel.

2. Routed that mic into a mix bus and then out a matrix and into the TYROS

3. Returned 4 channels of aux sends from the TYROS back into the mixer

4. Combined the mic channel with the TYROS aux returns into a master bus.


In this case you would have roughly 3-4 places to introduce noise. The mic input, the send to the TYROS, the TYROS itself, the return from the TYROS and finally the mix you produce.

The mic level seems to be about right. Shooting for about an -18dbu mic gain level. So now we have the send to the TYROS. This needs to be sent at unity gain, or at whatever level that presents unity gain to the TYROS input. You may simply need more level sent to the TYROS from your mic channel matrix send. Next is the level of the TYROS itself. 53% of full level is not indicative of anything. You need to be sending and or structuring the gain within the TYROS and its outputs so that the level is consistent with what you are sending it. You can't be going into the TYROS quiet and making the gain back up later within the unit and then attenuating it again at the output. The aux inputs of the X32 are intended for line input. You are sending it a very quiet performance level. I can see that the aux 3-4 does have some level, but aux 1-2 is not even tickling the meters.

This is where we get more in depth. The return paths of aux inputs 1-4 are set at unity for the fader and you are using the TYROS and the input trims to adjust the mix level. Don't do this. This is why you hear more noise. You in essence have the channel all the way up and you are amplifying the noise floor. You need to be sending the aux inputs MUCH MORE LEVEL and then you can use the fader to adjust the mix. You need to then also be sending more signal to the TYROS and or making sure that you are not cutting level too much or at all within the unit. You want to keep as much mic signal flowing through the TYROS as you can so you can reduce the noise floor. The lower noise floor will improve the amount of effect signal you see at your aux return inputs.

The last thing I noticed was the phase issues as a result of the different digital signal path lengths. You can hear this when you have the aux 3-4 turned on. The vocal has a hollow like sound. This is the effect of having two path lengths that are not equal combining into one. The X32 has a direct out feature and may be the best way to get the path lengths as close to the same as possible. You have to think of digital in terms of how much CPU time it takes to get signal from point a to point b. If you have the mic channel going through a mix group, then into a matrix and then into the TYROS, you now have 2 extra busses that the CPU must process the sound for vs, a standard mic input straight to the master bus. In order to make the return path lengths equal you would either have to add delay, or run them through a mix bus and a matrix. You could simply send the signal to the TYROS from a mix bus and then you could route the returns through a mix bus as well. This would make it so the digital path lengths are the same.

You mention that the noise goes away when you disconnect the TYROS from the X32. This means that you have a gain structure problem. So go through what I mention above trying to keep the the mic signal as hot as is practical all the way through the TYROS. Lastly set the aux return trims at 0db and use the faders to adjust the mix level. The input at aux -14 from the TYROS should be sufficiently hot that you get nearly -18dbu of input. If not, you need to work within the TYROS unit to get the needed level. If you desire to eliminate the phase issues, I would send to the TYROS from a direct out or simply eliminate the Matrix bus and just use standard mix busses.


On je detaljno sve opisao. Od svega ovoga ja sam shvatio da treba da ne koristim trim pojacanje na AUX IN 3 i 4, i da treba da uradim ovo "Eliminate the matrix send to the TYROS and add a mix buss to the aux returns, or send to the TYROS via a direct out." al ne znam tacno kako da izvedem to na x32. On tvrdi da sa ovim podesavanja ne bih imao nikakov suma i bruma.
Inace, snimio sam i video da detaljno opisem problem.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jw2siT3WZg

Naime, on je primetio na ovo video da se zvuk iz mikrofona menja kada ukljucim AUX3 i 4 i da treba da se skrati put slanja signala do TYROSA.

Promijenjeno od jtodorov (09.12.2017 u 11:30 sati) Razlog: Automatski spojeni uzastopni postovi
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